Comments on: The Pope is right (for once) – Employers SHOULD be able to discriminate against homosexuals

By: misesuk

misesuk — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:11:15 +0000

Discrimination won’t be seen as acceptable just because government doesn’t force people to associate together against their will. What I talk about in my article is brand NEW regulation, this is government “solving problems” that don’t exist. People have been coming to this county to work from places like India/Pakistan for hundreds of years, there have always been some racists/bigots around and yet they have persisted. The market wins out over intolerance. Observe how even though there are a bunch of fucking idiot BNP people going around saying “They come over here, steal our jobs” etc. we still see that most of the pizza shops and the local convenience stores are staffed by the Indians and the Pakistanis. Near where I live in Cardiff there is a whole area where Polish people have taken to living, stores have sprung up selling specific polish food and clothes etc. Be trustworthy and work hard, you will have a job.

The market works, and if you’re worried about public opinion turning against Muslims, then you certainly don’t want government getting involved… I mean they are ALREADY using their power to fuck Muslims over, look at what they do with holding people without charge for weeks at a time under the pretence of “anti-terrorism”… although the government doesn’t say it explicitly, these laws are used to target innocent Muslims all the time.

Government, if it should exist for anything (and I argue that it shouldn’t), should be limited to protecting people against violence & fraud. Not getting employed is NOT a rights violation. Nobody has an intrinsic right to a job, because if they did it would, by design, have to infringe on somebody else’s rights (the person being forced to provide it).

Gattaca is a film, so not very instructive to the debate, but if I remember correctly that film has a powerful centralised state. I am against state force.

Discrimination in education? Well not sure exactly what you mean, but if you mean do I support the right of schools to choose their pupils, then yes, of course. For the same reasons listed here and in the article. Remember, in a free society, you, or anyone else who isn’t a dick, can start up their own school that accepts any child of any race, gender or sexuality. Most people aren’t dicks, so this won’t be a problem.

By: Asking_the_questions

Asking_the_questions — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:14:58 +0000

One of the problems I have with this is that once discrimination is seen as acceptible they will do it. The more it is done the more acceptible it becomes. What if public opinion goes against Muslims because they are all irationally seen as terrorists? It is true that they would probably still be able to find work however if the market was flooded with a particular type of workforce, inevitable many would be unemployed or find themselves earning a lot less somewhere else. How would a trained doctor with lots of debt be expected to pay it back if he couldn’t get a job?

My other example is that of the film Gattaca where the main character has an exemplary cv, however discriminated because of his genes, due to him being natural born. Don’t you think someone should be given a chance at showing what they can do? Do you allow discrimination in education as well?

By: misesuk

misesuk — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:50:08 +0000

I don’t expect that of them though because it’s inefficient. My argument was BOTH the moral AND the economic. This kind of legislation doesn’t work, it fosters animosity and causes everything to cost more and it doesn’t even solve the “problem” of discrimination. Also anybody can start a corporation, and all consumers are free to boycott any corporation they don’t like, so the market can punish “bad behaviour”, no need for government.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:43:52 +0000

I am against the legal fiction that is the corporation because it limits individual liability for your actions, they would not exist in their current form in a free society

Well until this ‘free society’ arrives, you should accept corporations for what they are – powerful entities that have legal privileges and that owe society duties. In which case, more is expected of them than employees

By: misesuk

misesuk — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:26:07 +0000

This is a bit circular, like “The bible is true because it’s the bible”.

I agree that corporations are different from individuals but the vast majority of businesses are not even incorporated.

I am against the legal fiction that is the corporation because it limits individual liability for your actions, they would not exist in their current form in a free society.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:57:16 +0000

Employees discriminate against employers all the time based on all sorts of arbitrary things. (“They don’t pay enough”, “I didn’t like the look of the boss”, “I don’t want to work in the sewage industry”) why don’t employers deserve the same privilege?

Because they are employers. Businesses have responsibilities that employees do not have. That is the situation in every single country in the world. Businesses are not individuals. They are corporate entities that have certain legal privileges and duties. Therefore they are subject to different rules

By: Stephen

Stephen — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:46:35 +0000

Unfortunately, here in the U.S. some libertarians have failed to see (Or at least failed to say) that anti-discrimination laws are a form of government intrusion

All law is a form of government intrusion. The consequences of not having it are worse than the intrusion.

By: Josiah

Josiah — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:45:57 +0000

You’ll find it in the comments here: http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2010/02/papal-visit.html

By: misesuk

misesuk — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:57:47 +0000

Thanks for the complements!

I’m curious what Catholic blog was linking to this article, btw, do you mind saying?

By: Josiah

Josiah — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:39:56 +0000

Very well written, and the examples of discrimination are brilliant. Unfortunately, here in the U.S. some libertarians have failed to see (Or at least failed to say) that anti-discrimination laws are a form of government intrusion, I suspect due to the backlash they would receive.
I would hope that any adult would’ve matured to the point that they can stand having their beliefs and ideas attacked.
Rather interestingly, I found a link to this post on a Catholic blog.