Arguments against the 5p Plastic Bag Charge / Tax
The 5p “plastic bag charge” (only in effect in Wales… for the time being) is complete and utter insanity. Here are a few reasons, but there are doubtless many more:
1. The purported reason for the tax (which makes it illegal for companies to give away plastic bags at checkout, instead requiring them to charge 5p, the proceeds of which will go to council approved charities or something) is to encourage people to reuse plastic bags and thus help the environment.
I can tell you personally that since the law I have been using, I estimate, about 4 times more total plastic in my bag purchases than before. If plastic bags are bad for the environment my actions in this area are now about 4x as bad as before. Why? Well I’ll explain:
Before, supermarkets would give away the bags for free. They would be very thin and cheap bags that cost a fraction of a penny to produce and supermarkets could afford to give them away. They also offered bags you could pay for, 10p bags which were made of a stronger more durable plastic… these bags were made using much more plastic in total, quite obviously.
Well now because the supermarkets MUST charge at least 5p the crappy plastic bags have disappeared and now ONLY the good quality bags are for sale because the supermarkets (knowing what consumers want) realise that if they’re getting 5-10p for a bag that customers will want a nice bag.
Rather than remembering to bring bags to the supermarket, however, I simply forget every time because the cost is fairly trivial and I end up having to buy 3-4 thick quality plastic bags every time I shop. I GUARANTEE that the total plastic I’m using now is far greater than before. Before I used thin bags which used a small amount of plastic, now I use ones which use waaaaaaaaay more. The net effect? More plastic being produced and used in bags. The other net effect? More money has gone towards the government who were only able to get supermarkets to stop doing the nice thing of giving you free bags by violently threatening them with legislation.
But that’s not all… the law is stupid *on the face of it*…
2. The other day I went into Tescos to purchase plastic pockets for my business. A plastic pocket uses probably slightly more plastic than the old style very thin Tesco carrier bags. I went to the stationary section and I purchased 1000 plastic pockets… One thousand. I then went to the checkout and was forced by law to pay for one additional plastic bag that the supermarket would otherwise have given me. Would this not be considered insanity if aliens were observing our habits? How can I ethically buy 1000 plastic pockets but then need to pay 5p for an unncessarily wieldy plastic bag in order to ‘protect the environment’ … ?!?!?! WHAT?!??!
3. EVERYTHING IN THE SUPERMARKET IS WRAPPED IN PLASTIC. I can’t make this any clearer than it is. Walk around a supermarket. About 80% of the tens of thousands of products they hold are wrapped in plastic. Plastic. Plastic. Plastic. People are overflowing their trollies with things all wrapped in plastic. Some things are so intensely packed in plastic that you have to buy scissors packed in plastic just to get the plsatic off. IT’S ALL PLASTIC. But then a plastic BAG is a symbol of our wasteful society? It’s absurd. It’s legislation for legislation’s sake. It is just a giant inconveneince to customers and businesses and serves only the state and special interests (I’m sure the people who manufacture the thicker plastic bags are LOVING the law).
4. This final one is a little more abstract but it’s kind of true. The law has actually made it HARDER for stores to identify thieves. Especially in clothing stores. Where before everybody leaving would have their purchases in a bag and thus those leaving without one (and holding items) would be naturally suspicious now we have a situation where it’s quite normal for people to decline a bag and walk out carrying their things to save themselves the 5p… thus all things being equal more money will need to be spent on security in every store and more of the costs of shrinkage will be passed onto consumers. This is one of the many unintended consequences which predictably follows ALL government interventions into the marketplace.
These are just a few of my thoughts and observations on this topic. Most people brush the law aside as a silly issue to get worked up on… after all what is 5p? But it’s a metaphor for ALL state actions and without a core libertarian/economic underpinning to your own thinking then stuff like this will get by you all the time.
Don’t swallow the bullshit.







August 20th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Madness!
In addition, most/many people re-used the old free bags.
We line pedal bins with ours and use them to pick up dog shite before dumping them. I’m sure there are many other uses…
If the free bags disappear people will buy bin liners and dog shite bags both of which are still dumped. Saving to the environment – nil.
Luckily I live in Cyprus where the check-out girl will still bag individual items in a free give-away advertising sign.
August 20th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/plastic-fantastic-carrier-bags-not-ecovillains-after-all-2220129.html
Reasonable article in the independent that discusses the need to use a cotton carrier bag 200 times before it has the equivalent CO2 impact as a plastic bag.
And the suggestion at the end…”Use a cotton bag. Lots.”[facepalm]
So if you buy a cotton bag you’ll be doing the world a favour unless you slip up once throughout the year and find that you need to make an unsheduled stop at the supermarket.
I’m clocking off now as my wife rang and asked me to pick up a couple of things from the supermarket on the way home. I kid you not.
August 20th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
I nearly forgot…
I received a present last year from a good friend (and I mean a good friend despite the craziness of what I’m about to divulge) who happens to be a Green Party candidate for the council. The present was given to me in a bag made of recycled newspaper. “I wanted you to know it was from me.”, he said. On inspection, I noticed that the newspaper was The Times of India. I bit my tongue. Friends are more important but I chuckled on the inside.
August 20th, 2012 at 5:35 pm
Hahahahahahaha!
August 20th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
More ungeneralizable personal anecdotes would make this more convincing, imo.
August 20th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
What a stupid man you must be Davy to have to constantly buy carrier bags because you’re too stupid or lazy to take some with you. Your post is nonsense and flies in the face of the known facts since this charge came in, that being that plastic waste has gone down somewhere in the region of 90%+ across Wales. It seems most of the people living here are more switched on than you are.
May I suggest you get a grip and take some with you.
August 20th, 2012 at 8:02 pm
The simple solution is to legalize industrial hemp.
August 20th, 2012 at 11:28 pm
Plastic Waste or Plastic bags Fixer? I assume even you can’t believe the first claim? Almost every single item in the supermarket produces more plastic wsste than a typical old-style tesco carrier bag.
But opening with what a stupid and lazy man I must be is the sort of behavior I’d expect from anybody defending a law that seems to be based more on emotions and petty violence against businessmen than it is about helping the environment in some vague nebulous sense.
August 20th, 2012 at 11:30 pm
@snypylo: Yes, because the law was obviously enacted based on such sound principles of scientific rigor and unshakable philosophical consistency! Oh, wait, no, they just pulled the law out of their assholes and inflicted it on everybody regardless of anybody’s opinion on the matter.
August 30th, 2012 at 11:47 am
I think I’ve said it before but it hasn’t affected us much. I’m not rich but 5p doesn’t really bother me. I’m just a little bit roe careful about reusing bags and when I do buy one it’s nice to know there money is getting pumped back into the local community. Where I live they just used the money to sort out the kids play park which is kind of cool.
Also, I think it does make other people recycle, albeit against their will. Since they are ignorant and have a lazy attitude about recycling, this pleases me.
August 31st, 2012 at 7:38 am
@Harry.
1. Whether not it has affected YOU much is irrelevant. The smoking ban didn’t affect me at all, in fact you could say it benefited me as pubs now smell nicer, only problem is that my ethical system isn’t based solely on “What’s best for me.” Rather my system says if *I* want to be free I have to allow other people to be free.
2. A good example of you not holding to this consistent ethic is your closing statement. You want people not to be lazy, so you are expecting them to do something that you value (recycling) however when they won’t voluntarily do what you want you say it “pleases you” that people are made to do it against their will. The truth is that it is lazy OF YOU to want to take a shortcut to get people to do the things you subjectively value… I can’t really debate you about this kind of thing because you either intuitively get that it’s wrong to force *opinions* (how much plastic you should recycle DEFINITELY falls into the category of opinion) on people or you don’t. Apply the golden rule. Let’s say a neighbour decides that it’s a lazy attitude that makes people start building a shed without seeking council permission so he spends his whole time desperately trying to get you in trouble. Would you like that? I’m guessing not… but if you’re willing to say it pleases you to use force to get people to recycle then you don’t have a leg to stand on if anybody ever tries to use the government against you. God forbid anything ever happens to me or my family because the government just decides it knows best and I should be punished and forced into doing stuff based on the whims of people who think they know better than everybody else… I know that if it did you’d probably agree with me it was bullshit but you have to separate the abstract from the personal. If it’s wrong when it’s a friend it should be wrong ALWAYS.
If recycling is a great idea then persuade people and set a good example. Looking down on people or advocating force will never make people WANT to change. It’s like trying to educate a child with threats… you might get your way in the short run but the problems will show up in unintended consequences in the long run–the kids might have problems with empathy, they might not like you when they become adults… they might lose their natural love of learning etc. etc. In the same way you can get people to “recycle” by forcing them but it will instill in them a disdain for the practice whereas if you persuade people through reason and setting the good example then they might actually WANT to do it. By analogy would you teach a child to keep their promises because if they don’t you’ll lock them up for six months or is it better to lead by example, explain why they should do it and let them discover TRUE morality by making their moral choices because they WANT to not because they’re FORCED to.
5p tax on bags isn’t a big thing. If you scroll back just one page you’ll see an essay, several thousand words long, speaking emotionally against the Iraq war… obviously that’s a more serious issue but the PRINCIPLE is the same. The principle is always the same. You either want things solved voluntarily by individuals or top-down by politicians. There aren’t any middle-ground options. It’s always freedom vs force. Always.
January 6th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Sigh!….Ireland’s plastic bag test resulted in a 90% reduction in plastic bag usage in a couple of weeks. It has been hailed a great success and has even been called “Europe’s most popular tax”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2205419.stm
Furthermore, plastic bags represent an enormous source of pollution. Councils spend millions each year unblocking drains fouled up by stray plastic bags, nevermind the cost of disposing of those that do make it to the dump.
But typically libertarians will choose to find fault with anything. How else would you (in the absence of government) deal with a hazard like plastic bags? i.e. who is going to unblock the drains, cart away the bags and who is going to pay for all of that?
January 23rd, 2013 at 7:26 pm
[...] made a comment a couple of weeks back on this libertarian site. The post in question was discussing the newly [...]
February 7th, 2013 at 4:15 am
As a first time business visitor to Wales looking to relocate my business there. Staying in hotel. Nipped into Tesco for a few extras but was hit with 5p charge. I am a visitor and felt ripped off and angry. I imagine most tourists will feel the same – except those that are gullible enough to believe that they are saving the world. Anyway, decision made, we will not be relocating to a country so stupid as to force social engineering down your throats. A very worrying trend. What is next? Charges for buying food wrapped in plastic? Charges for getting your hair cut?
February 24th, 2013 at 1:48 am
Dickie,
You are not seriously suggesting that you avoided setting up business in Wales due to a 5p tax. I mean you’d have to be using tens of thousands of the bags a year before such a tax began to affect you’re bottom line….and then I’d argue that just remembering to bring a bag with you would solve the problem….or buy in bulk wholesale!
What school of finance did you study in?… cos it obviously wasn’t a very good one!
February 24th, 2013 at 7:03 am
Perhaps he realised that a country that was willing to introduce such a stupid law (and is planning others like banning smoking in cars)is unlikely to be business friendly in the long term…?
February 24th, 2013 at 10:52 pm
It seems like he’s making business decisions based on emotional arguments (and ill considered ideological factors) rather than hard and fast business data.
A ban on smoking in cars or a 5p charge on plastic bags will not effect the business bottom line. The bag tax had no effect on Irish business output, indeed most retailers quickly adapted to it by either switching to recyclable paper bags or simply trusting their customers to bring bags along with them (I though you libertarians were into trusting people to do the right thing?).
If you want to set up a business in a country free from “government interference” why don’t you go set up a business in Somalia, there’s no taxes, no big government, just total chaos! You’d love it!
February 25th, 2013 at 7:45 am
Barman,
I am very successful thank you however my experience in Wales was as exactly as Daryan pointed out. Stupid interference by dogmatic politicians based on flawed social engineering theory is not a recipe for success. Bags are just the start.
February 25th, 2013 at 9:27 am
Dickie,
Good for you!
I closed my business in the UK ten years ago and left the country. I couldn’t bare the relentless onslaught of taxes and red tape that simply made it difficult to do business on a day-to-day basis.
And it has got much worse since then I know.